Curse

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Hey, i was just wondering how you put up with pressure in HA and keep your energy level high if channeling has been diverted/rended/shattered.

I'm a bit of a newbie monk and i wanna learn how to put up with all different types of pressure and when the right moment to stop a spike is.

If you need a bit more of an explanation i can do so.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: (also i think i have put it in the wrong forum by accident, sorry)

LifesRestorer · Dec 29, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

generally, if your channeling gets diverted against a condition pressure, you're slightly screwed. try and conserve as much energy as you can by only healing targets that are taking pressure and not topping up stuff unless you are sure you'll have enough energy for later

against spike teams, energy isnt as important. just watch the melee characters movement and prot up anything he goes close to with spirit bond. if there is no melee, watch the spiker with the longest cast times (fire ele, 2 second cast for rodgorts, soul barbs on IV spike, 2 second cast time) to brace yourself for when the spike is about to come in.

The hardest spike (for me) to read is rspike, because there isn't much to give away from the opposition to indicate where the arrows are going to land. try to get your team to use obstacles as much as they can, such as walls, hills and bridges so you can narrow down the number of hostile spike targets.

I'm not the best monk in the world and my skills could be improved but yeah, thats what i've learnt so far and i hope to improve my skills preprotting.
anyways, thats my two cents

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

what about pressure, for example being trained...will just guardian+kiting work or should i tab through their team to see what they have(for example, mes or a water snare) and preveil?

EDIT: and what about the use of draw enchants, should i only use it on the RC? also infuse, in what cases do i use that other than to clean up spike damage? do i use that as a failsafe encase the other monk(s) fail to get SB on in time or use woh?

masteroflife · Dec 29, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

in HA, if channeling is not diverted. you shouldn't have problem with pressure because 90% of those pressure comes from W/R or R/W. Against R/W, make sure you have someone on your team shutting down the OoA. If that is done, channeling is your best friend because most pressure those R/W will give you is condition and eventually run you out of energy. Most team carry AoS which means condition of out of the question. with channeling, pets and stuff will actually give you a ton of energy given that it is not stripped by OoA. against W/R, it is tougher to deal with the pressure, but healing isn't as importent as proting against W/R, any blocking and evading will do tripple the job as healing because it will prevent damage, prevent condition, and it will prevent them from gaining adren for "Fear me". so watch the playing field and put guardian on targets, and keep up aegis chain if your team is using one. most importantly is to spread out, so hopefully "Fear me" doesn't hit everyone on the team.

Against spikes, watch the playing field. Derv spikes is very easy to catch as long as people are spread out. It is very obvious which target the spike is going to be on. pre prot the target and he or she won't even come close to dying. If you keept up against a couple spikes, the rate of spiking from the derv will decrease because most dervs run melandru or conjure. Melandru has down time which means their spike will be weaker. Conjure dervs is very hard on energy, which means after a few spikes, the derv will mostly exhusted of most energy and fail to keep up the pressure with constant spike.
Against spikes that does not have melee(i.e. IV spike), make sure your mesmer or ranger can interupt the soul barb. because with soul barb, their spike is not infusable. If soul barb is interupted, IV spike is till clean unless you team has cold shield. WIth a cold shield and around 600 health, people will not die from just IV. so a quick infuser is all your need.
Against R spike, it is very important that you watch the playing field and stay behind walls. But that doesn't mean you should stop moving. The first thing against R spike is to take down their favorable wind. WIthout it, you can actually dodge their arrows from the hornbows. Plus, all the ranger will be in different spots and upon spike, they will all turn toward the same target (obviously). If you are watching the playing field, you have 1.3 second to figure out who that person is going to be and pre prot.

All and all, watching the playing field is very important against any number of teams. Good luck and have fun.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I understand about zergway, quite easy to keep the fear me's off and you dont need much of antipressure, i know guardian+kite+low energy set is the way to go there, even better vocal minority

but this is more of what ive heard/seen atm so i dont have the true experience of it

LifesRestorer · Dec 29, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

what about pressure, for example being trained...will just guardian+kiting work or should i tab through their team to see what they have(for example, mes or a water snare) and preveil?

for thumpers, use guardian and kite through wards.
if you have barbs, i like to just stand still with SoA and channel tank.

Quote:

EDIT: and what about the use of draw enchants, should i only use it on the RC? also infuse, in what cases do i use that other than to clean up spike damage? do i use that as a failsafe encase the other monk(s) fail to get SB on in time or use woh?

draw conds in most cases should only be used to draw off of the RC. most important conditions to remove are cripple, daze and deep wound, for obvious reasons.
infusing isnt really my field of play but it's a spike saver. also use it to clean up immense damage, for example a target is on about 5% life, or the ghost could die after timer on HoH/Courtyard.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

okay, but what about the perfect times to heal?
can anyone give me a screenshot to show me when i should be healing my party members?

LifesRestorer · Dec 29, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

that depends entirely on what type of team you are facing, how much energy you have and what type of monk you are playing as.

Tyla · Dec 29, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

well i *think* the base amount you should have, is 35 with a shield set, 25 when against edenial, and 70 with a high energy set.
then the 40/40 (with protting)
is this a correct inventory?

also i want to know it with all types of monks, if possible ofcourse

LifesRestorer · Dec 30, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

correct inventory varies.

the standard is to have

standard shield/martial weapon set (35e)
high set (47 energy i think)
low energy set (25 energy)

for the 4th set, as a prot monk i SHOULD have a 40/40 set for guardian and SoA but i dont cause i'm lazy so for my 4th set i have an emergency 15/-1 energy offhand with a martial weapon.

remember to change your shield set depending on what you're fighting: IV spike (+10AL vs cold), +10AL vs blunt for sway, ect.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 30, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

For sets it depends on what you're running, but generally it's something like:

Shield set, martial weapon/shield, can double as a low set if you use a -5 weapon
High set, +30/-2

And then two efficiency sets. Usually as a prot monk you'll have one that's a 40/20 enchanting prot staff, while the other one could be a low set, a 40/40 prot set, or a 40/40 heal set if you're using GoH or WoH.

Citan Uzuki · Dec 30, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

correct inventory varies.

the standard is to have

standard shield/martial weapon set (35e)
high set (47 energy i think)
low energy set (25 energy)

for the 4th set, as a prot monk i SHOULD have a 40/40 set for guardian and SoA but i dont cause i'm lazy so for my 4th set i have an emergency 15/-1 energy offhand with a martial weapon.

remember to change your shield set depending on what you're fighting: IV spike (+10AL vs cold), +10AL vs blunt for sway, ect.

With a high set, your energy should be in the 70's. The 40/40 is 47 energy I believe.

And yes, keep a shied for every type of damage in your inventory to swap to, depending on the situation.

Tyla · Dec 30, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Thanks for all the advice

Just to train in the actual skill of monking properly now

Lorekeeper · Dec 30, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Another tactic you can use is a tactical withdrawl. In a 2 monk backline getting things like your elite or channeling diverted can spell disaster depending on your build. Builds with a high amount of off monk defense might be able to survive with 1 monk operating at half capacity (especially if the monk operating at full capacity is very good)... builds with a low amount of off monk defense will struggle the hardest.

If low defense high offense builds are what you monk for... when you get channeling or your elite diverted you should call out on vent that this has happened... there is no shame, some people just get lucky with diversions sometimes (god help me if i wont personally reach into my laptop and strangle the enemy ghostly hero everytime he clutch dshots my channeling) after which your primary strat caller should recognise the danger of the situation and make the decision whether to carry on fighting or to tell everyone to back off and ease the pressure.

Theres no shame in retreating when it can prevent you from losing the battle prematurely.

BlackEagle · Dec 30, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Weapon set wise, I run the following:

Set 1: Prot Staff 20% global recharge, 40% FC Prot, 20% enchant.
Set 2: Sword +5e, 30hp / Shield + 30 hp, +10 vs. X. (I have slashing as default)
Set 3: 40/40 wand/focus healing set.
Set 4: +15 -1 regen x2 set.

If that was one of the questions.

To deal with pressure a lot of it comes down to mitigating damage through intelligent protting and kiting. Against iway always call cripples as that is one fo the most dangerous conditions in as much as it means that you take a lot more damage.

About when to heal team-mates it is just far too situational to make anything except reallly generalised advise. A target can be perfectly save at 10% health, but seconds away from death at 100%. It is that sort of evaluation that you have to make, it depends how likely it is that the target is going to take damage soon. Obviously, there is an element of red barring that you do have to do, but you always have to be wary of threats and not just watch the health bars and try and make them go up.

Also, for general monking tips, I suggest you check this thread by Tommy:

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2844

LifesRestorer · Dec 30, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citan Uzuki

With a high set, your energy should be in the 70's. The 40/40 is 47 energy I believe.

And yes, keep a shied for every type of damage in your inventory to swap to, depending on the situation.

40/40 set is 42 energy.

high for me is 47. i only pull it out when i need to. the 70 or so energy, is for me the EMERGENCY SET and i only use it when it's in match saving circumstances, such as ghost dying, priest dying or vital save on the hard res character.

i dont like to use 30/-2 cause if you somehow manage to die on that you're totally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed over. if an extra 15 energy isnt enough, you're doing it wrong lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Another tactic you can use is a tactical withdrawl. In a 2 monk backline getting things like your elite or channeling diverted can spell disaster depending on your build. Builds with a high amount of off monk defense might be able to survive with 1 monk operating at half capacity (especially if the monk operating at full capacity is very good)

Theres no shame in retreating when it can prevent you from losing the battle prematurely.

This is also very important. If you're crying to your strat caller 'channeling diverted, need to pull back or we die' and they don't do anything about it, after the match you can just go 'what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO did i tell you, eh?'

BlackEagle · Dec 30, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

40/40 set is 42 energy.

high for me is 47. i only pull it out when i need to. the 70 or so energy, is for me the EMERGENCY SET and i only use it when it's in match saving circumstances, such as ghost dying, priest dying or vital save on the hard res character.

i dont like to use 30/-2 cause if you somehow manage to die on that you're totally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed over. if an extra 15 energy isnt enough, you're doing it wrong lol.

Wrong.

If you want to play with 42 energy, then good luck to you. There is absolutely no reason not to have a 72 energy set, and use it with great frequency. There really should be no marked difference between your high energy set and others. It's a mistake loads of monks make, they view the high set as a big no-no and going into it as the end. It really isn't, it is just a set with higher energy than your other sets. The -2 regen has a really minimal effect, because as soon as you have cast in it you switch back down to your shield set. If you're letting people die because you are out of energy in your 47 set that's very, very bad. When you go into your high set, it is time when, if you aren't already, you need to start playing defensive until your monks have recovered. But really, I would happily go into my high set to cast anything to keep people alive, with the same readiness as I would if doing ok on energy in other sets.

I really can't stress the significance of fully utilising your high set, there is absolutely no good reason to not use it, you're just handicapping yourself. If you aren't using high sets, then you are basically giving any monk that is using properly 30 energy over on you, which is a huge chunk of energy.

Sorry if I seemed harsh, but honestly that's a really bad thing to encourage in other monks.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 30, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

Wrong.

If you want to play with 42 energy, then good luck to you. There is absolutely no reason not to have a 72 energy set, and use it with great frequency. There really should be no marked difference between your high energy set and others. It's a mistake loads of monks make, they view the high set as a big no-no and going into it as the end. It really isn't, it is just a set with higher energy than your other sets. The -2 regen has a really minimal effect, because as soon as you have cast in it you switch back down to your shield set. If you're letting people die because you are out of energy in your 47 set that's very, very bad. When you go into your high set, it is time when, if you aren't already, you need to start playing defensive until your monks have recovered. But really, I would happily go into my high set to cast anything to keep people alive, with the same readiness as I would if doing ok on energy in other sets.

I really can't stress the significance of fully utilising your high set, there is absolutely no good reason to not use it, you're just handicapping yourself. If you aren't using high sets, then you are basically giving any monk that is using properly 30 energy over on you, which is a huge chunk of energy.

Sorry if I seemed harsh, but honestly that's a really bad thing to encourage in other monks.

QFT. I remember Tommy stating in a thread that he spends an amount of time monking with no energy in his regular sets and relying on his high energy set that would shock most players. You always have to think of how much energy you have out of 70, and utilize that to the max. If your team could gain an advantage by pushing and your zeroed out in a regular set, that's no reason not to push unless you're on the verge of breaking in your high set.

People should never die due to you having low energy until you're zeroed out in your high set (of course, you'd want to call a retreat/defensive playing before that).

EDIT: Some quotes on high energy sets from Tommy's thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

I personally will spend a great deal of time in matches on my high set and won't think twice about it. I always view my energy as x of 72, not x of 35, 40, or 42, simply because I know it's available to me. Although that swap offers by far the least efficiency, it still offers staying power at the stand or otherwise. Often times, during offensive pushes, I will exhaust my high set because I am removing conditions, hexes, and maintaining veils. I play very offensive-mindedly, so if I see my team pushing well, or if they inform me that they have the opportunity to, I don't hesitate to heal and cast out of my high set. Monks are offensive catalysts, and being able to full push into an opposing team with an Aegis up and prots flying around is the ultimate way to score kills and win games. If we are taking enough damage to push me into my high set and my team is still pushing, then I'm going to throw up a 15 energy Aegis in my high set anyway.

It's a personal belief that a high energy set is used for recovery at the stand as well as to facilitate offensive pushes, not to keep a team alive in an emergency situation. Although that is one of its uses, viewing that as the primary focus of the set limits a team offensively, as it either lets up pressure completely or disallows a greater number of pushes with longer durations.

Lorekeeper · Dec 30, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

the only thing that prevents me from using my high sets as frequently as i would like to is that i havent found a comfortable or fast way of switching from regular/defensive sets to -1 or -2 sets.

Im limited by my interface habits. I dont use click to move (too used to wasd from playing FPS games). When monking my left hand deals with movement and clutch skills like Infuse etc on keys 123 that are above W on my laptop keyboard.

So my left hand already has alot to deal with. Item sets are on f1 f2 f3 by default and ive not found it possible for my left hand to move up to those keys and back down to wasd and 123 keys quickly. LOL it all sounds quite malcoordinated doesnt it.

My right hand on the mouse does a few things... click party members... click skills vs pressure... hold right button to control camera view when i need to watch the battlefield.

item switching from regular to high on every cast just seems impossible for me atm. If i found a highly intuitive way of doing it i would...

right now because of my lack of ability to switch between sets quickly... when i need to... i tend to stay in high sets for longer than i would like...

and i have no idea how to change this short of growing another arm.

LifesRestorer · Dec 30, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

no dont get me wrong i use my emergency set when i need to and right after casting i swap back down, but if you are letting your energy get that low in the first place you need to take a look on the way you are playing, cause something isnt right.

if an extra 15 energy isnt enough for an emergency cast when you are trying to build energy back up, then wtf are you doing? just remember you already have an extra 12 in reserve cause you should be sitting on a shield set, and for me that is enough backup. relying on a -energy regen set for an energy reserve, is NOT a good approach to monking imo